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多次试管失败的姐妹们,去查查免疫吧 [复制链接]

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只看该作者 50  发表于: 2011-06-17
nycresident,我三促六移,一次胎停,一次生化,我以前一直怀疑是内膜问题,每次移植都是8C,厚度和形态都不好,现在第四次促排已经进周,突然很担心自己的免疫问题,但现在去检查已经来不及了,老公也只给我这最后一次机会,我太想成功了,我能不能自己要求医生在移前后注射免疫球蛋白,或脂肪乳剂,到底哪种效果好些?我以前的医生同意了让我注射蛋白,但他不是太支持。虽然这样会冒太大的风险,但我还是想把可能影响的因素都控制在最低范围,能给点好建议吗?谢谢
三促六移,第四次促排中

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只看该作者 51  发表于: 2011-06-18
回 50楼(紫钦宝贝) 的帖子
你知道免疫球蛋白这个药很贵的吗,注射一次差不多要一万元呢。这个药的风险倒是不大,看你医生怎么说,风险小也一点也便宜的多的方法就是滴脂肪乳剂+低分子肝素+强的松。形态C的内膜不行哦,排卵前可是C吗?排卵后C形态是没有关系的。
[ 此帖被nycresident在2011-06-18 01:10重新编辑 ]
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只看该作者 52  发表于: 2011-06-19
nycresident,谢谢你的回答,我排卵前的内膜有时A有时B,但每到移植前比超都是C,我知道这很不好。我也不能肯定这是不是内膜因素,我最后移植失败后,我们这移后十天查血,也就是移植第十三天我去比超时内膜是7B,医生说没有想象的好也没有想象的差。主要是我都移植过六次,我不想再赌,老公也给我最后一次机会,感觉压力还是很大,这个我自己可以好好调节,放松心态去做这最后一次。有滴脂肪乳剂这种治疗的详细方法吗?哪些医院会有这些药,我应该什么时候治疗这个呢?
三促六移,第四次促排中
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只看该作者 53  发表于: 2011-06-20
nycresident,我看脂肪乳剂分长、中、短链的脂肪乳剂;且其主要成分有分别从大豆油、椰子油、橄榄油、鱼油中提取的,或四者混合按比例提取而合成的制剂,不知道临床控制NK是用的哪种???还有这个是不是在移植前两周静脉滴注呢?鲜胚周期也可以用吗? 肝素和强的松是跟脂肪乳剂一起使用的吗?是不是使用肝素一般就不用阿司匹林了?我现在已经降调第八针了,再等五天就要开始促排了。不知道有用没用,我都想试试。
三促六移,第四次促排中

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只看该作者 54  发表于: 2011-06-20
回 53楼(紫钦宝贝) 的帖子
脂肪乳剂是大豆提炼的那种,英文名intralipid,一定要认准了。
用法: 20%的脂肪乳剂100ml,与400ml生理盐水混合,通过静脉滴注

移植前7-10天滴注一次,好孕后再滴注一次。
肝素是移植后开始打,普通肝素要天天打,低分子肝素好像是一星期打两针,这个具体要问问医生
强的松是促排的时候就开始吃,一直吃到12周。

上面是我从一个试管医生的博客里看来的。

脂肪乳剂治疗免疫最近两年才在美国开始,主要是芝加哥的一个免疫医生提出的,Beer中心不用脂肪乳剂。在做NK毒性分析时,芝加哥的实验室会给出加入脂肪乳剂和IVIg对NK后,50:1和25:1的结果降低程度。

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只看该作者 55  发表于: 2011-06-21
patient question:
Doctors- I’ve had 3 m/c’s this year all around 7-8 weeks. The 1st was a natural pregnancy. My prog was very low and I had a lot of bleeding early on. The D&C result was “normal male” but I’m convinced the m/c was due to the fact that I wasn’t on any prog support or lovenox.


M/c’s 2 and 3 were SET IVF cycles and the D&C report came back as normal “female” for each which I've been told by several sources (including Dr. F and my own RE) that this is an inconclusive result.

My question is regarding my pregnancy with my son. In that pregnancy, I transferred 3 embryos and got pg with all 3. All 3 implanted and at 7 weeks I had 2 h/b’s and 1 gestational sac. By 8 weeks, I only had one h/b.

Don’t the losses during my son’s pg point to chromosomal abnormalities vs immune issues? If it were it immune issues, wouldn’t I have lost all 3?

Thank you for your help.

Dr' s answer
Even though your progesterone was low at the time of the loss, I think that was more likely due to the fact that the pregnbancy was not attaching properly, rather than being due to an inherrent luteal defect. ..i.e. the result, rather than the cause of the problem.

In fact in your case, it is in my opinion quite probable that you have an immunologic implantation problem...probably alloimmune in origin (see my articles on "immunologic implantation dysfunction"..." and on "Recurrent Pregnancy Loss" at www.IVFauthority.com). I invite you to call 800-780-7437 and set up a telephone conference with me to discuss this , if you wish.

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只看该作者 56  发表于: 2011-06-22
nycresident,真是太感谢了,这么详细的方案,我准备采用,不管有没有效,这样心里也踏实些。我过两天就要促排了,我到医院去问问我的医生有没有这方面的药,虽然他不太支持,但他会配合的,为了这最后的希望。
三促六移,第四次促排中

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只看该作者 57  发表于: 2011-06-22
Re:曾经的免疫老大难,今日的快乐妈妈!祝福我们,祝福大家!
intralipid治疗高NK毒性的效果还没完全明确(尽管我们的实验数据显示其可显著抑制NK毒性,但药效似乎不及IVIG)。另外,作为高脂含量的生物制剂(肉眼观察可见高浓缩样乳液),可能会对病人特别是有血脂病的病人产生较严重的副作用。
[ 此帖被liguangui在2011-06-26 18:50重新编辑 ]

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只看该作者 58  发表于: 2011-06-23
Beer派别的免疫医生是不推荐脂肪乳剂,可是使用脂肪乳剂的医生则觉得它比免疫球蛋白便宜安全,SIRM这家医院已经给免疫不孕病人用了好几年的脂肪乳剂了,说效果比期望的要好。以前10多年他们都是用IVIg的,现在已经不用了。

Immunologic Treatment

INTRALIPID 20% - FINALLY AN EFFECTIVE, SAFE AND LOW COST ALTERNATIVE TO IVIG THERAPY
SIRM physicians have long advocated aggressive treatment of immunologic implantation dysfunction in women undergoing IVF. In cases where there has been Natural Killer Cell activation (Nka) (as evidenced by an abnormal K562 target cell test) we have championed the use of IVIG to down-regulate (deactivate) the Nka. In this manner, many women who otherwise might not have achieved success with IVF have gone from infertility to family.

For us at SIRM, advocating the use of IVIG over the last decade, has come at a considerable price. Clearly, women requiring IVIG have been concerned about the cost (more than $4000 per dosage), reported side effects and, given the HIV/hepatitis scare, have been reluctant to receive a blood product. To make matters worse, under-informed critics have for unexplained reasons played on such unfounded fear often raising it to the level of alarm. The fact is that over the years we have administered IVIG to thousands of women, without a single report of viral transmission and few significant (but always transient) side effects.

About a year ago reports began to surface regarding a low cost (about ten times less than IVIG) synthetic product called Intralipid, which upon being infused more than a week prior to embryo transfer would lower Nka and further more, was virtually free of side effects.

About a year ago, we began evaluating the effect of Intralipid in patients who had activated Natural Killer cells, and for whom IVIG therapy would otherwise be indicated. Thus far we have treated more than 30 women with Nka using Intralipid 20%. More than 60% of the patients achieved viable ongoing pregnancies, showing Intralipid therapy to be at least as effective (and perhaps even more so) than IVIG. There were no significant side effects and patient tolerance of this treatment was high. We anticipate that patients receiving Intralipid will soon start reporting on their experience using Intralipid, on various discussion boards.

Against this background, SIRM physicians have collectively decided to virtually abandon further use of IVIG, in favor of Intralipid.

Below are some clinical details about Intralipid:

Intralipid (IL), is a synthetic product composed of 10% soybean oil, 1,2% egg yolk phospholipids, 2.25% glycerin and water. Based on research performed at SIRM and elsewhere, infusion of IL lowers Natural Killer cell activation (Nka) as effectively as does, intravenous gammaglobulin (IVIG.) When indicated IL (as with IVIG) is infused 7-10 days prior to ET and one more time again after a positive pregnancy in women whose Nka is due to an autoimmune causes (antiphospholipid antibodies and/or antithyroid antibodies). In cases of alloimmune implantation dysfunction (DQa and/ HLA matching between the embryo recipient and the male partner) the same applies but in this situation the infusion is repeated at 2-4 week intervals until the 24th week of pregnancy.
We have supplanted IVIG with IL therapy in a significant number of women undergoing IVF , and who had immunologic embryo implantation dysfunction. The results thus far have been excellent, way beyond our initial expectations.
At last we now have a safe and inexpensive alternative to IVIG therapy...Intralipid! What is more, IL costs about 10 times less than IVIG, is not a blood product and is without significant side effects.

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只看该作者 59  发表于: 2011-07-02
nycresident,我今天促排第三天了,我去了我们这里最大的一家医院(华西医院),没有开到IVIG和低分子肝素,开的脂肪乳剂intralipid20%是250ML装的,一次是滴100ML吗?那剩下的还可以用不?我看华西医院有低分子肝素钙,没有低分子肝素,不知低分子肝素钙能不能用?谢谢nycresident!
三促六移,第四次促排中